Laurent Malet

MOVIES

Why did Fassbinder like to humiliate people?

Sometimes I think he wanted to see how far he could go before people would stop loving him. He could be very, very cruel. It wasn't a guilt thing. Maybe it was symptomatic that the two lovers he had both killed themselves.

The first lover, to whom the film is dedicated, the star of Fear Eats The Soul, broke with him and went back to Paris. For a couple of months he was still invited to the salons by saying he screwed with Fassbinder. Then it got boring and he had seven children to support and he hanged himself in a prison in Marseilles.

And the second lover, Armand, after whose death Fassbinder did a movie about him, In The Year of 13 Moons, took an 'overdose of sleeping tablets and was found by Fassbinder's mother after he'd been dead a couple of days.

What did you think of him personally? This is without any sentimentality. After he died I knew I would never meet 'anyone again with whom I could have such incredible evenings. And where everything is an adventure, where there's a freedom I have never seen in any other person. He was totally non-conformist. He forced himself at any moment to do what he wanted to do. And got more and more alone.

Fassbinder's personality was not like other movie directors. He could make you feel like no other person, not even your mother, had ever understood you as well. He could see secret desires in you.

Why did he let himself get the way. he did?

We asked ourselves that for years and years. Ten years ago he started a form of self destruction with excessive smoking, excessive use of drugs, alcohol, and the thing that I noticed when we were at Cannes, he would eat all the time, just pour food into himself. And I said "You can't go on like this, you'll kill yourself." And he said "No, I won't die. I'm stronger than nature."

He never at any time thought he was going to die young?

No. He was very scared of death. You have to insure a director before each film, but to get him to a doctor before Querelle ... he was so scared of doctors. Afterwards we wondered what we could have done. But all we could have done would have been to put handcuffs on him and put him in a hospital in Switzerland. That sounds so easy now when I say it but he was strong. If there was a table of 40 people, even if he sat there saying nothing, all the energy would come from him. He certainly did not want to die, but he used to abuse sleeping pills and cocaine. It was not a suicide but it was not an accident either. It wasn't

Rainer Fassbinder

an accident like a car where you get killed. It's just like when you've been destroying yourself for ten years the destruction is finalised. And I knew that between films he always got into a depressive state so we spent two weeks of post-synchronization in New York together.

He could have called anyone in New York and he would have been invited out. But he didn't. He would call me in the morning and say "What are you doing?" I'd tell him all the boring things I had to do and he'd say "Wait, wait. I'm going to get dressed. I'm coming too."

Did he have many close friends?

A friendship is something where you can feel relaxed and can be totally yourself. In his presence no one was ever totally himself. It was love. He got lots of love. I certainly know that I loved him and got addicted to him but friendship is something different.

Did his homosexuality have any bearing on the subject matter of his films?

No. That he did a horrible film like Fox and His Friends that's bourgeoise sentimentality was also in him. He was a very kitschy person. He was not a proletariat. He came from a very wealthy family. His father was a doctor and his mother translated literature. But they didn't want to have anything to do with their child. They gave him money so he wouldn't disturb them. He went to see movies all the time. He told me once "When I discovered I was gay I was so happy I went to my father and told him. I loved this butcher's son. I discovered I wanted to go to bed with him. I told my father and he said 'OK, that you're gay but can't it be with someone who goes to the university?"" Being gay was never a problem for him.

So going out on a limb was really him, it was never put on?

He's the only European director I know who's done totally private movies. He did movies out of completely private inclinations.

The titles say "A film about the novel of Jean Genet. "

He was never intending to film the novel. He wanted to do his own meditation, of what was important for him about the novel. So if you start comparing the film with the novel you're on the wrong track. It doesn't lead anywhere. What Fassbinder does in the film is treat masculinity as archetypes of masculine behavior. Masculinity is not a substance and can, of course, only exist in relationship to the next masculinity. And they're archetypes which have their own logic but no logic that we know. The captain, the seaman, the policeman, the criminal. And I think that's something that straight men can understand.

Was producing the film an enjoyable experience for you?

At the beginning I had a thousand fears and I was not sleeping. One night I signed a cheque which I knew I could not pay and the studio was supposed to be closed down because I could not pay the bills and the next day they were going to cut off the electricity. And I'd signed a cheque for over 300 000 marks or about $150 000 and I knew I had to find the money within the next 24 hours or I would have to leave the country. But I wanted the film to be done no matter what happened.

And Fassbinder wanted to be paid every morning. He wanted his $6000 every morning in cash. He bought me this golden handbag and I would bring him his cash every morning before shooting began in the bag.

""

Then there were days when I just didn't have the money and I said, "Rainer I don't think I can pay you." Rainer said "OK, I can give you a loan for the next three days." So he would give me the $18 000 so I then could pay him.

I wish Fassbinder could have seen the reaction to the film. He would have loved it, particularly the scandal.

The funny thing is though he was a very immoral person, what I miss most is that you could go to him if you had a problem and he would listen and he would give you advice which was very moral. He might use it against you the next day but even though he was an immoral person he had a moral quality.

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